re disc grammar uk school response fascinate geoffrey sampson s defense traditional educational language standard cannot resist comment point seem teach correct usage standard terminology element grammar punctuation ability remedy formal error faulty prose exactly kind thing need teach area secondaryschool level school pupil teach engage explicit systematic reflection language strike akin suggest teacher french forget teach past participle vivre favour pupil develop consider opinion theory derrida even assume type cognitive achievement worthwhile principle quite impractical average secondaryschool class attain sett aside possible implication elitism phrase average secondaryschool class view charge impracticality suspicion since typical dismiss innovation means s nice s already identify priority re trouble through cf money investigate socal cause crime s much hardly keep demand prison s top priority anything else thanks anyway nevertheless principle put off read why top priority disappoint though rationale offer seem predictable arguable need learn write national language accurately much modern life depend complex write communication prose full unsystematic deviation convention interfere successful communication dirty window interfere successful vision message lose amid problem medium need terminology talk bit piece language car mechanic need name part motor order provide apparatus wrong cure prose nt work sound reasonable indeed favor student thing fact prescriptive grammatical terminology analysis set foundation even linguist engage explicit systematic reflection language namely linguist start traditional category explore motivation discuss where seem inadequate adequate view whatever larger linguistic fact bring bear whatever problem traditional grammar realise course geoff argue wonder traditional grammatical analysis etc either necessary sufficient effective complex communication probably nobody defend sufficient condition view much obscure incomprehensible though grammatically flawless standard write wonder necessary condition able analyse imitate standard write is standard different natural language first learn type least professional creative writer actually aware key element style e g one effective even coin nominal compound show recognition characteristic style mention thus challenge notion standard necesarily demand certain context present esp great logical thing s generally portray s gonna solve those communication problem alarm english publisher since caxton even explicitly teach maybe lot teacher screw teach grammar s where lot student complain irremediably bore want hell classroom even linguistics popular many student nt earlier turn off grammar beyond though teach orthography grammar school level much broader educational value one lesson learn nothing big worthwhile ever achieve life without careful attention endless tedious often arbitrary detail cant better domain learn lesson orthography grammar one s national language contain tedious detail relate material surround child everyday life discipline moral fibre argument ditch attempt enforce authoritarianism friend mine english teacher observe supervisor ambitious man stickler discipline night school student wear hat class supervisor friend teacher tell one recalcitrant student once night school adults student off put right back friend s m here teach english s bother anybody else m suck authority game school child full petty discipline thing insist upon along learn subject obediance important understand argument discipline obedience lead understand argument cf learn declension conjugation before approach text often teacher nt even why something insist obey else authoritarian structure collapse supervisor down lot kid resent school probably same one actually cause disturbance cant control themselve somehow is anyone unfamiliar childhood m refer basically discipline argument seem argument student master standard english demonstrate ability necessarily inclination follow relatively complex orders routine therefore consider capable position hierarchy where follow fairly complex order consider necessary least desirable little wonder actually call behavioral skill morality question geoff s rationale without question view british civilization s quote message nt benjus 